[Blackmirror]

Take a look at what the English have done to Spain
When i go abroad i want to see the country I'm in
Eat the local food and drink the local plonk

I don't need English bars /pubs /restaurants
Might as well stay at home

I think Spain is having an identity crisis as well

Why did they do it ?
Why change for us?

[Jason]

Originally Posted by bomb #21

I'm an atheist. I don't think "being Christian" is a key indicator of "Britishness" -- but if it is, I'm sunk.

Who says it is? For the record, I aren't Christian, either. I don't believe in any religion.

Our traditions are being wiped away. What about the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep -- they can't say that now 'cause it's classed as racist. Like I've said, Christmas will be stopped soon.

[Blackmirror]

I hope so Jason
I detest it

[Jason]

That's because Christmas isn't the same as it used to be years ago. I used to love waking up really early and seeing what I'd got. Unfortunately, it isn't the same any more since we've lost all sense of Englishness.

[bomb #21]

Returning to this, if I may.

Originally Posted by Joshuashawharvey

No matter how comlicated the procedures, they can still claim, and they still do.

I don't think it would be moral to make it illegal for them to have children, but I think the amount of minorities that come into the country in the first place needs to be controlled so that the amount of children the may possibly have can also be accounted for.
There needs to be a controllable level so that for each brit emigrating, one minority enters the country, or something along those lines. A 1:1 ratio rather than what seems like a 1:10000 ratio, so we can keep the balance and have controllable immigration. We need to stop letting minorities in full stop (well as little as possible) until we can control what we currently have.
I also believe that immigrants that commit crimes should be part of a "no tolerance" policy and should be exiled immediately instead of being allowed to overcrowd our prisons.

I'd substitute "the amount of minorities" with "number of people".

I've already posted linkage that the in/out ratio is nowhere near 1:10000, regardless of what it may seem like (AKA what the Daily Mail says ).

But in principle, I've no problem with "let's put immigration (bar "emergencies") on hold for a while, while we figure out the baseline".

W/r/t "no tolerance", that's another key BNP policy (which I only point out FYI since I'm sure you're not a member).

So, "no tolerance". Yeah, that would make some difference. I read from a year ago:

In Britain, 10% of prisoners are Muslim - a huge number when Muslims number 1.6m out of a total population of 58.7m.

I personally disagree with "no tolerance". But leaving that aside, would it in itself be enough to counter the "Muslims have more kids" thing? I don't think it would.

To go back to the beginning then: some nutter says "We need more Muslim babies ... then we can take over Britain".

Well it's certainly a plan for establishing the caliphate that I've not heard before! After all, while blowing stuff up is illegal, breeding isn't. Here's something Jason said before.

We don't have enough room for our OWN people and these immigrants entering the country are just overflowing it.

There must be a maximum number of people this country can support -- stands to reason, don't it? Do something about immigration if you will, but since there are already many Muslims here and their culture is to have more kids than "average", then some "control" on breeding is necessary. So, some "encouragement" to procreate "more responsibly" should be introduced*, IMO (e.g. means testing for child benefit + no CB beyond the first 3 kids). If you apply that for all ethnicities, then it's not discriminatory. & if it works, then the current ethnic mix would (if not stay as it is, then at least) change at a far slower rate than it currently looks set to.

What do you think? (note: if you're a religious person, you need not answer that question )

*Donna, no offence intended -- the past is a different country.

[bomb #21]

Originally Posted by BM

I hope so Jason
I detest it

LOL!

So do I.

[Dr Strangelove]

It's pointless blaming the mess on Blair/Brown; the Conservative numpties are as bad or worse.
Please don't expect that lot to help matters if they win the next election as you will be sorely disappointed...

[bomb #21]

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's pointless blaming the mess on Blair/Brown; the Conservative numpties are as bad or worse.
Please don't expect that lot to help matters if they win the next election as you will be sorely disappointed...

Well we all know what raising the immigration issue ineptly did for Howard at the last election.

Nice avatar. Is it meant to convey your political persuasion?

[Dr Strangelove]

Yes, well spotted - it's the only way forward.

[Blackmirror]

I vouch for you being a complete loony Dr S

Now where were we??

It piddles me off a little that most housing is outt of the reach of my kids
my eldest son has been working since he left school
He cant afford to buy and has no chance in hell of getting council accomodation as he is single


But take a single mum with a baby and bobs your uncle

[Joshuashawharvey]

Originally Posted by bomb #21

Returning to this, if I may.

I've already posted linkage that the in/out ratio is nowhere near 1:10000, regardless of what it may seem like (AKA what the Daily Mail says ).

Figures given out aren't necessarily true or show the entire picture. You base your answers on raw facts, which is fair enough, and it's good that you back up what you say, but even they can be misleading and have twists to them.

Originally Posted by bomb #21

W/r/t "no tolerance", that's another key BNP policy (which I only point out FYI since I'm sure you're not a member).

Right, I do not support the BNP, but that doesn't mean I think this particular policy is wrong. I think it's a good deterrent, so that people coming into this country respect our laws and way of life, and also abide by them. Without such a policy they take advantage, which is exactly what they're doing.

Originally Posted by bomb #21

I personally disagree with "no tolerance". But leaving that aside, would it in itself be enough to counter the "Muslims have more kids" thing? I don't think it would.

I never considered this to be a way of countering muslims having more kids. Just a way of them showing respect and NOT taking advantage.

Originally Posted by bomb #21

There must be a maximum number of people this country can support -- stands to reason, don't it?

Yeah, I agree with that, but it's just being overlooked.

Originally Posted by bomb #21

Do something about immigration if you will, but since there are already many Muslims here and their culture is to have more kids than "average", then some "control" on breeding is necessary.

Well, going back to what Noel Edmonds said "The bus is full" Yeah their culture is to have a more-than-average amount of children, but keep letting more in it's just going to continue getting much worse. We need a stategy of being able to control the amount we already have, and then the amount of children they may already have or plan to have can also be accounted for. I don't believe in preventing people from having children, that is their right and I believe it's immoral to stop them. I think people should be stopped from entering the country until we can manage immigration.

Originally Posted by bomb #21

So, some "encouragement" to procreate "more responsibly" should be introduced*, IMO (e.g. means testing for child benefit + no CB beyond the first 3 kids). If you apply that for all ethnicities, then it's not discriminatory. & if it works, then the current ethnic mix would (if not stay as it is, then at least) change at a far slower rate than it currently looks set to.

Well that's a much wiser idea than what is happening at the moment and could well work. If only our government had the backbone to implement such a policy.

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's pointless blaming the mess on Blair/Brown; the Conservative numpties are as bad or worse.
Please don't expect that lot to help matters if they win the next election as you will be sorely disappointed...

I doubt I could be any more disappointed than I already am. We at least need something to hope for.

[Blackmirror]

When did Britain stop being Great ?

[bomb #21]

@ Joshuashawharvey; thanks for the reply, I've only one thing to add.

"I don't believe in preventing people from having children, that is their right and I believe it's immoral to stop them."

As you probably know, China had (?has?) a one-child policy. I believe that global food shortages, diminishing fuel supplies, etc. will necessitate a review of that right before this century is done and dusted.

TTYL

[Blackmirror]

Reduced population growth in the country of 1.3 billion by as much as 300 million people over its first twenty years.

This rule has caused a disdain for female infants; abortion, neglect, abandonment, and even infanticide have been known to occur to female infants. The result of such Draconian family planning has resulted in the disparate ratio of 114 males for every 100 females among babies from birth through children four years of age. Normally, 105 males are naturally born for every 100 females.

China One Child Policy - Overview of the One Child Policy in China

Now that millions of sibling-less people in China are now young adults in or nearing their child-bearing years, a special provision allows millions of couples to have two children legally. If a couple is composed of two people without siblings, then they may have two children of their own, thus preventing too dramatic of a population decrease

Has it worked ??

[Joshuashawharvey]

Although I do disagree with preventing people from having children, over-population is a really serious but sensitive issue. I wouldn't know how to deal with it to be honest I hardly have the political prowess to be the next prime minister What other solutions is there for such an issue?

[Jason]

It's a difficult one to deal with. Sooner or later, we're goin' to run out of land, then what?

Maybe we should look at carting a few people off to another planet.

[Dr Strangelove]

Anyone born with immigrant parents should be considered a child of the country the parents came from.
At least if they were born in the first say, 5 years. Hence they would not have an automatic right of residency.

Problem solved - you're welcome

[bomb #21]

There are only 3 things I know of that can be done about over-population.

1. Nothing

2. Legislate for # of kids people can have

3. Encourage "responsible" procreation, which can in itself be portrayed as an attack on human rights.

Although I've never been able to find it on the interweb, I'm positive that there was a programme in the 70s where Indian men who volunteered for vasectomies were rewarded with transistors radios!

[bomb #21]

Actually I had a thought on the bus this AM about the "breeding control" thing -- an analogy, if you will. Maybe it's a good one.

The red squirrel is native to Britain, but its future is increasingly uncertain as the introduced American grey squirrel expands its range across the mainland. There are estimated to be only 140,000 red squirrels left in Britain, with over 2.5 million greys. The Forestry Commission is working with partners in projects across Britain to develop a long-term conservation strategy that deters greys and encourages reds

Forestry Commission - Red Squirrels

On a road trip for 2 days, see ya later.

(chin up Donna )